We Said It: Modesty Is Dead

Is modesty dead?

It’s a topic that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but it’s one we think Christians need to talk about.

In this episode of Seriously, Sis Podcast, we discuss modesty, culture, and why conversations around biblical standards often create such strong reactions. Has culture influenced the Church more than we realize? What does biblical modesty actually mean? And is modesty just about clothing, or is there something deeper happening in the heart?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I am by nature a rule follower. So when people ask me, well, why, Julia? Because God says no. Like because He said no. He told us not to let our adornment be on the outside, but to be on the inside. Our character, the way that we carry ourselves. Not to focus more on what's on the outside. And then the inside is completely underdeveloped. And I've met some of y'all. Y'all's insides are completely underdeveloped.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Hey, hey, it's Seriously Syspodcast. And this week I'm going to kick this off. We're going to be talking about modesty and why it's dead.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Okay, well, since you very strongly feel that way, why is it dead?

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Why is it dead? I have no clue what is wrong with this generation of people.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Let me rephrase the question. How do you know it's dead?

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Have you been outside the four walls of your house at any point?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yes, I have. I know that they're dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Never ask that question again.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

How do you know it's dead? Just okay, hear me out. I understand that there are a lot of people, a lot of, well, yeah, just people, men and women, to be completely honest, that don't value modesty, but there is a rising trend in women going back to traditionalism.

unknown 1:36

Who?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Okay, obviously my Instagram feed is different than yours. Continue.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Where are these people that are going back to to traditionalism?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

All of these women who are baking sourdough bread, those ladies.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Anyways, I don't think that baking sourdough determines if someone's modest.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

No, but they usually have on like the little house on the prairie dresses.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

What are you watching? I've seen so many people sourdough, and I've never seen them wearing little house on the prairie.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I'm just saying, they they like they teach you how to do like things that we all should know how to do, and they whisper to you when they do it, and it's just like soft girl era in their little house on the prairie dresses. That's my algorithm. I don't know what's wrong with yours.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

It doesn't matter what your Instagram algorithm is, it doesn't change when you walk into Walmart when people are wearing.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Or do you go to the mall? Thank you. You've helped me figure it out. I don't go to Walmart.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Oh, okay. There we go. Food lion. Food lion.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

My food lion's not wretched.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Anyways, people don't know how to dress. And it's not just in like it's not, it's in the church as much as it's outside the church. I've seen people wearing things that I'm like, no, you did not. Come up in here in that dress that I can see your spanks.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

You did not.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Okay, I'm gonna stop gaslighting you now. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Exactly. Like, what is wrong with y'all?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

It's just them. I don't do that because I don't like being naked in public.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

I think that there's this idea that if you aren't exposing your body and exposing what you have to offer, that a man will not find you attractive.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Um I do think that that is prevalent, especially amongst younger women. But for the ones who are old and rusty like we are, I think they just don't like to be told what to wear. And the crazy part is that nobody has to tell me that. That's the part I can't wrap my mind around. No one has to tell me that um public indecency is still a crime. Nobody has to tell me that. Nobody has to tell me to be um embarrassed about things that should be hidden and only should be seen by a husband shouldn't be on display for the world to see. That's the thing that concerns me, is why we need to even have this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

And I want to know why people think that that looks good. Like, why do you think wearing something that covers this much of your boob it looks okay? If I have to look at someone in an outfit and I have to be like, does this person even have nipples? Your boobs shouldn't be out that far. Like they shouldn't be that much exposed that I'm like, whoa, like, wait a moment. And you know, I I think there's something to be said about how dressing like that causes men to stumble. Sure. Because I it does, and I kind of wish Mike would have been on this, but he'd probably be like, please don't put me on this. But how like the away a woman when they dress so provocatively or men, that you know, it'll cause a man to stumble. But it's not just men.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

No.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

When you dress like that, I know like it it'll it it's a distraction to everyone, every single person. And it's just crazy, you know. Um, I actually really struggled with my one of my kids with this, where she just wants to dress and she just never wants to dress modest. And don't matter what I say to the girl, she's like looking at me like I'm crazy. Now, this there was a phase that this went through that I'd be like, hey, why is the mid drift of your stomach showing? And she's like, mom, and I'm like, but why? Like, I don't understand. Like, why are you wearing this? Why are you wearing that? Now I'm not to the my husband's a little more to the extreme than I am, especially with our girls. Like, he'll be like, What is she wearing? Why is she wearing that? And I'm like, Okay, calm down. It's a t-shirt, so they're very loose in it over nothing. But um, I I started realizing really quickly, like that to them isn't it's not abnormal. Like it's not, it's not weird. It's not like, oh, I'm dressing inappropriately, or this is not an appropriate way to dress, yeah, or that this is um like I could have some modesty. It's just like, what are you talking about? I'm wearing the same thing everybody wears. Like this is this is the style, yeah, is to dress like this.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

And see, I I would venture to say that that's even a bigger problem than a person who's doing it because they're looking for uh approval or they're looking for acceptance. That's a problem, don't get me wrong. But when you have an entire culture of people who don't see something wrong with that or doesn't see something wrong with something that's very clearly wrong, whatever it is, we've messed up somewhere down the line. And by we, I I do mean Christians, but I also mean uh parents. The fact that it's gotten to this point where the thing that we would have had to sneak out the house to wear is the thing that they walk in and say, Hey mom, how does this look? That's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

And what's crazy, it's even to the extent that the moms are buying the stuff. Like you see, I see five-year-olds where their parents bought them fuzzy boots, a mini skirt, and a belly shirt. Like, right? And you're just like, what is going on here? Like, is this just am I losing my freaking mind? Is this just normal behavior when there are crop tops in the kids' section at Target?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

And yeah, and we we have to camp out on this parent thing here for a little second because the child is a child.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Why are you okay with the oversexualization of your five-year-old? Why is that normal to you? The world is gonna do what the world does, but one of your primary duties as a parent is to protect that child. People are weird, they are strange. Why are you helping them be weird? Why are you helping them target your child? Why are you contributing to your child's ideology that my value is wrapped up in what I wear or how I look?

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

You set the temperature for that, or you help. Why are you abdicating your position in your child's life? That's actually very concerning. I know I started this off plan, but like that is actually very concerning because you're putting your children in danger when you do that. Listen to me. It is not like when we were kids, and our moms used to tell us, if anyone offers you candy, don't go get in their van. Like it, those days are long gone. We are in an era where someone will have a take a picture of your child on the low and have them sold in five minutes, and all you gotta do is turn your back and your child is gone.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

That's the world we're living in. So parents not understanding that is a very, very scary thing. And I I'm sorry, I'm sure you didn't mean to go in this direction with this topic, but I'm a little bit passionate about that. I got a lot of cousins, lots of nieces and nephews. And um, I will tell them, what you got on?

SPEAKER_03 9:37

I'm like, why are you dressed like that? What's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

What you think you're doing? Find something else or find a scarf. I don't sorry, I don't really play about that, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

See, my oldest got to the point that she knows like when she goes somewhere if I didn't see her beforehand, her dad will FaceTime her. What are you wearing?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

As he should.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

And she's like, Oh my gosh, you know, like, here we go. But really, it's just it is kind of it's sad. It's just sad in a sense that there used to be such a um not saying that there isn't anymore, but not as much. That when someone went to, for example, prom or whatnot, and they would buy these beautiful, elegant dresses and it'd be like, wow, she's breathtaking, she's stunning. Now it's how short, how tight, how revealing. Oh, does that that one has a see-through bust? Like, like it's crazy. Um, it I have had a few people show me like their kids' prom dresses, and when I saw them, I was like, wow, that's what kids wear to prom now. Because when I went to prom, you would have thought we were out of a Disney movie.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah. You know, and there is um, you started this off by talking about how they think that they're only desirable or, you know, beautiful or whatever based upon someone's response to how much they show. Like their value is being built in that. And I don't know if you know it, but some people don't grow out of that. Like you might think it's cute when they're 18 because they're real tiny and all the because they're 18, but that same 18-year-old, what you're reinforcing in their mind is this is my value.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

So when they become 30 and they don't look like they looked at 18 because they're 30, their value is wrapped up in that. Or even if they do still look the same way that they did at 18, their value is wrapped up in that, and then anyone can come along and completely elevate or deflate them based upon their perception of their appearance. And so instead of finding their value where they should be finding it, they find it in something else, or they find it in someone else, which is very, very dangerous. And these choices that we're making, um, because I'm sure most people would think that like I'm approved, not because of the way I dress, but the fact that I will be like, what you got on? And somebody else might not see a problem with it. And it's not so much that I don't, you're you're beautiful, but you're beautiful without that, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Yeah, you don't need to do that.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

You don't need to, you don't need to do that. But I'm thinking about what it's reinforcing in their mind and what they're gonna have to unpack in therapy at 45. Like that's where my mind goes with it, and that these seeds that you plant turn into sprouts, turn into bushes, turn into trees. If you don't plant those seeds, they don't have to, you know, and if you don't allow those seeds to get planted back to the parents, or if you do everything within your power to stop that, you're helping your children along versus them having to go through a bunch of chaos only to realize at 55, oh yeah, my value wasn't in that after they've got a whole bunch of casualties behind them because of that. Now, we've harped on the the girls a lot, but the same I think is true of men. And and when I say that, I mean not so much necessarily their value, maybe to a point, but the lust factor. These little girls lust after these little boys, just like these little boys lust after these little girls. And so we hear a lot about how the girls are causing the boys to stumble. Causing, not helping, I like that better because there is some responsibility on you to not just Don't get Mike started on this.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

There is some responsibility on you to control yourself, but some of these girls know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, I mean most of these girls know what they're doing. But the same is also true. These guys don't just be on Instagram flexing and shirtlists and all this other stuff for their health.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Oh, see, what's your algorithm? I don't see shortlists flexing men on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

We're not talking about my algorithm. I'm just saying that's not my algorithm. My point is that you see your your phone. That's what I will gladly give it up. My algorithm is bad singing and uh comedy skits of people acting stupid. That's my algorithm.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

But it's crazy because when I'm thinking about it, and I'm thinking about like modesty, I've always been very modest. That's just the kind of person I am. Um even when I was younger and I had my phase where maybe my I had a low-cut shirt on or whatnot, um, I've always been modest. Sure. So um I'm like one of those people like I feel uncomfortable when things are hanging places they shouldn't be hanging. Like it just is what it is. Um but what what I'm seeing now is like, even for example, I've I've seen where I've seen pregnant women who are wearing clothes that this is fully exposed. They just have like a tube top on and a pair of stretchy shorts. I'm like, what is happening? Like, why is this happening here? Like, I don't understand, but there is such a um comfortability. And I don't even want to say that like some of them are being sexual. I don't think it's a sexual thing. Like some of it, like those pregnant women, I think it's a comfortability aspect. They're they're completely comfortable just having like half their body exposed. Um, is it sexual to see a pregnant woman in a tube top? Probably not. I'm not 100%. Um but it's just this comfortability of being exposed. We're so comfortable in an environment being exposed, not just from our physically, we're comfortable being exposed online and the things we talk about. It's just like we're in a culture of let's expose everything. Um and that to me, it's just like we don't really you don't really, I don't want to say value anything, but you really do devalue certain things when you don't keep them safe. You don't keep them to yourself, to your example, to your kids. When you don't protect your kids and allow them to be kids and try to let them be kids as long as possible, you you're not giving them that value that they deserve. Like, okay, we've all been there where I've seen a child that clearly grew up a little bit too quick. Parents maybe didn't want them, wanted them to be the trendy kid, wanted them to look a certain way. And then by the time they're this age, well, they're kind of out of control. And material things are all that matters at that point, right? Because we we didn't let them be a kid. I remember I had a friend one time and my kids, if you ever see them, have tons of usually character T's or character shoes or whatnot. And I remember I was buying uh Noah at the time he was the little one, and there was a I can't remember the name of the cartoon, but there was a cartoon online that he really loved. And they heard there were some shoes of this cartoon. I went to the store and I picked them up for him and I gave them to him. And one of the girls that I knew that I was working with, she came to me and she's like, I would never let my child wear character shoes. She's like, the only thing my kids wear is Nikes. Um, and I think she said Adidas. She's like, unless it's name brand, it's they're not wearing it. I said, Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, but see, that's revealing about something deep within that person. Because listen to me, one thing that I am not, I am a person who appreciates nice things. I believe in uh spending money for value. What I don't believe in is spending money for a name. I'm not about that. I will pay something for uh pay some money for quality for it to last, but just because it's got a name on it, absolutely not. And I would like to submit that that is more about the perception of them than it even is even their child. And here's what I mean by this. Um, my my dad, he grew up uh very poor, like just you know, hand-me-downs and a lot of stuff like that. And um, and he told me, which is why I'm sharing the story, he told me that when he was a kid, he got picked on a lot about the fact that he had either worn down shoes or shoes that came from Walmart or, you know, stuff like that. And so he vowed that his kids were never gonna experience that. And we didn't, because we always had like the nicest shoes or new shoes when school started and stuff like that, to the point where I remember one time that this kid said to me, Your dad must be rich. Now, we were not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But because my dad had this thing from his childhood and and was like, if nothing else, my kid's gonna have nice shoes, the perception was that we were wealthy. Now, I believe that my dad wanted us to have good things because he's just a good dad. I believe that he wanted us to have good things, but it had more to do about the trauma from his upbringing and what he went through than it did about what we were going through. I wasn't going through nothing. I was fine. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the shoes. Don't get me wrong, but today, I don't care where the shoes come from. Do they fit? Do I like them? That's all I care about. And that's the mindset that I have. So the person that you're talking about, you know, I'm not saying that they necessarily experience poverty or anything like that, but sometimes when when that happens, they're like, I don't want people to perceive my child a certain way and then associate that with my parenting. So my kids can only wear Nike, my kids can only wear Adidas. Mike, that's a little bit about you because I promise you that four-year-old doesn't care.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

No, they probably want to wear the character shoes.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Exactly. They probably want to wear the character shoes.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

I'm telling you, every time I take my children to the store, don't let anything toy story be in that store. Nothing. Because I will have to leave with it. It's like really frustrating the amount of um woody shirts that one of my children has.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

At least six of them. But they're so cute. They want to wear at every occasion. I'm like, can you wear something different? But this is my woody. I'm like, what in the world? Um, but I wouldn't getting back on the subject of modesty, but I do think that um we're in a time when you know people just are just comfortable being naked. That's the best way to put it. Like we're so comfortable in being naked. And let me tell you, everything that you wear, everything that you go out in, every picture that you post at the day and age that you're in, eventually one day, if you have kids, your kids will see it. If you have kids, they're gonna see what you are wearing and whatnot. So just think about that. When you wear certain things, people are gonna see it.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Now I've always been told I'm the mom of the group because of things like that, because even when I used to go out with my girls back in the day, I always would be like, What are you wearing? I remember one time one of my friends was wearing something that was totally not appropriate. And if she watched this podcast, you know I'm talking about her, but she doesn't. Anyways, and I was like, Oh my gosh, what are you wearing? And she made a joke. She's like, I can't wait till Madison sees these pictures because she's gonna lose it. And sure enough, I said, What in the world were you wearing? And I'm a little on the extreme, probably. I probably am very, very extreme when it comes to me thinking people like when I'm on stage at church, I tend to wear long sleeves. So there's just certain things that I'm a little bit on the extreme about. So I do recognize that. And especially with my daughter, when she wants to wear certain things that are fashion forward, that I'm like. Why are you wearing that? Like, what is that about? Um, but I do think that there is an extreme issue when you know you can walk into the a church building and people are letting everything hang out. When the when the guys have the button of their shirt buttoned all the way down here, like I didn't need to see all that.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Didn't need it, didn't ask for it.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a good look either. That's what's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Like Yeah, and see, since we're back on the church, you know, I am uh a rule follower, right? Like I that's just who I am, unless the rule is unrighteous or something like that. I am by nature a rule follower. So when people ask me, well, why, Julia? Because God said no. Like, because he said no, he told us not to let our adornment be on the outside, but to be on the inside, our character, the way that we carry ourselves, not to focus more on what's on the outside. And then the inside is completely underdeveloped. And I've met some of y'all, y'all's insides are completely underdeveloped when it comes to your walk and stuff like that. You're more concerned about your outward perception than you are about what happens when I have a conversation with you. What happens when I need to depend on you for something, or you know, whatever, whatever it may be. When you're when people are encountering you as Christ's representative in the world, what's on the inside?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

You're more concerned about this, and and you've you've casted away the thing that actually has value aside, but you've completely undervalued the thing that you should be holding in high esteem. Why? That's backwards. And it's one thing for that to happen in the world, it's a completely different thing for it to happen in the church, and I do mean in the church building, like it's a completely disrespectful. God asked us not to do that, and it's a distraction. You don't know what people are struggling with. Yeah, you walk into the church building, and I think people assume because you're in the church, that they're not people there struggling with real struggles. There is someone sitting in there who is trusting God to lead them away from lust, praying for it, begging for it, and then you come sit in front of them, male or female, you come sit in front of them all exposed, and now they can't focus on the message because you decided you just had to wear your crop top or your shirt buttoned at your navel. Like, why you weren't concerned enough about the person that you could be distracting, yeah, to think maybe I'm gonna button my shirt all the way up today. And I know we talked about um this from like uh a worship perspective at one point about being a distraction. Like, we're not supposed to be taking away from what God is trying to accomplish in that moment, even if all that God is trying to accomplish is our praise of Him. You're not supposed to be taking away from that, you're taking away from that when, and and it could be anybody, it could be me on stage. I'm trying to strum my chords, but I can't, because all I see is everything that God ever gave you. Why? I don't want to see it. So I'm gonna have to close my eyes and play on stage. Like, just why? Why are we doing that? I don't understand, I don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

I don't have an answer. Well, I just know that I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

But I just, you know, there is something to be said for just having the response of because God told us not to. Maybe he's trying to protect us.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

You know, maybe, maybe. I I have yet to come across something he said don't do because he was just trying to ruin my fun.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

And you know, there's a reason, like if you go into a business place in business sense, there's a reason there's normally a dress coat. Yeah. You know, there's a reason we don't just allow people to wear whatever they want. Um there's a reason that we don't do those things. It puts you liable as a company in s in general to lawsuits and um sexual harassment claims, and there's so many things that come around with people not dressing appropriately. So that's why businesses they put together a dress code.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

You gotta dress a certain way if you want to be here. I remember I used to serve tables a long time ago, and um it was you had to wear a button-up shirt and a tie. And I would be like, Really? I gotta wear a button-up shirt and a tie so I can serve someone spaghetti? Like, what is this about? Or like you can't have tattoos showing. You had I had to cover my tattoo, I have one behind my ear. I used to be like, my tattoo ain't hurting no one. Like that's crazy. But they had a standard, and there was a reason they had that standard because they were trying to make a comfortable environment for people to come and sit down, relax, and enjoy a plate of spaghetti.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Right? And without having to think, oh, okay, my one, my my server is not dressed appropriately. Now my husband can't enjoy his meal, and I'm worried about the way she's talking to him, or she looks dirty and unclean. They're like, there's a dress code. There's a reason. But you should really take pride in, you know, your appearance to an extent. Like take care of yourself. And cover yourself up.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

That's all I have.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah, I mean, the the modesty is is by and large, we're talking about um covering yourself, like not showing everybody everything that you have. Um, but I I think you bring up a really good point that your appearance matters. Um and and I don't want to make it one of these things where I don't like your style. So I'm saying that's not what I'm saying, because different looks speak to different people. You know, we were just having this conversation the other day. You know, I've got a couple tattoos. I'm probably gonna be able to walk up to the person who has tattoos and witness to them in a way that the person who has a button up, no tattoos, clean cut, might not be able to reach them. So this is not about just, I don't like your style. That's not what this is about. It is about are you a distraction and causing people to stumble? Because those are two very different things. And so that extends to maybe don't show up to church in your pajamas.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

I have a wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

That's that's a distraction. You may be fully covered, but it's a distraction, you know. You are Christ's representative in the world.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Right. They called they used to call it the Sunday's best for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

When I was a kid, we I used to put on pantyhose. Dress shoes. That's such a crazy word. It's true. Anyways, pantyhose and dress shoes, and my mama made me wear a sh a dress of some sort that now that I look at it, look back on it, I don't even think they make dresses that have the big poofy sleeves. Oh, you went through that too? Yes. Like I was dressed in my Sunday best. We dressed nice, my hair was done. I used to not understand when it was time for me to go to school and I get home from school, and my mom would look at me because she didn't get up to get me dressed, I get myself dressed, get up, go to school. She'd look at me and she'd say, You better tell me you did not go to that school without brushing your hair. And I used to be like, like, why does it matter? And now I'm a I'm I'm uh a parent, and I'm like, please tell me you brush your hair before.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

It's like I got it, but you're right. Like, don't show up like in your pajamas, like, show up. Like you put some effort in. Yeah. And I And I'm not saying if that's all they had to wear, that like, I don't want you not to show up at all. Please show up. We'll get you there. Um but the real thing I'm talking about when I'm talking about modesty, and when I'm having this conversation, it's not for the people that like there are some things you can't control. It just happens in life. I'm talking about the people that they're okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

They're doing it intentionally.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Yeah. That was that's what I'm talking about. Like, we're so comfortable. We're more comfortable in nothing. And we're more comfortable in I don't know, a bralette and a pair of leggings walking around. Which bralettes are supposed to be worn under something anyway.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

If you didn't I did know that.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

More comfortable in wearing a bralette and some leggings or some um biker shorts and be walking around dressed like that. That's comfortable. We should never be comfortable being out and exposed like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

And I'll add in zero degree weather. That it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Oh, that can never be me. Because I'm always cold. So that could never be me.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

We shouldn't, we should just not be comfortable dressing in a way that it just exposes exposes yourself. Distracts people because we're trying to figure out where our value is. Because that's the that's the only time we're we're we feel pretty. It's the only time we feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

And the crazy part is that people will assign assign a value to you.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

And I guarantee you that the value they assign to you based upon how little you have on is not the one you want.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

No.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Because they may think you're good enough for certain things, but they probably not gonna take you home to their mom.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

They're not gonna marry you.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah. So, like, I was actually just listening to um to a video about this. Um, this girl was talking about how uh being an OnlyFans girl has ruined her life. Like, she can't, no one will date her because they will literally tell her, you are not, and I'm not saying I hold this opinion. I'm just saying this is what she's sharing. They're telling her, you are not good enough to date. You're a good one night stand kind of girl. I can't take you home to my mother. I can't choose you to be the mother of my children. Like, I can't choose you to build something with because you've put all this out here for everyone to see, it's free for everyone. I can't marry, and that's what they tell her. She's like, I I I literally haven't been on a date in years for that reason. Not a real one for that reason. And um, and she was saying, she was sharing all this to say that she had um been introduced to Jesus and Jesus was teaching her about her value, and she was um realizing that there was a lot of trauma and stuff from her childhood that she had never really dealt with that led her down this path. And she's starting to see that, you know, my my value isn't in the number of people that I can sleep with or the number of men's heads that I can get to turn. It's in the things that we don't understand that we want until we don't have it, like real relationships, like people we can depend on, like um security, you know, those kinds of things that only come from depth of relationship. But when you've put everything that you have and said, this is all I am out there, people are gonna take that and then move on to the next thing. And you don't do yourself a service by doing that. So you allow people to assign a value to you, I guarantee you, is low. I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Because they're like, oh, well, it's you know, there's nothing, especially men, men who are like fighters who are the type of men who want to, men who like the chase kind of thing, there's nothing to work for. You've you've given me everything, there's nothing to work for. And I'm not saying that that's a good mindset, but what I'm saying is that's the reality. Like, that is the reality of how you're being perceived. And so the value that you think you're getting from doing this is actually the opposite. You are deflating your value.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Yeah, and I can't speak from like a man's standpoint when it comes to the easy girl, the easier girl, I guess like you should say, um, or the the one that you pick up at the bar, because and why they pick the particular ones they pick. Like, I think guys know what they're doing. Um, but I know from like my relationship with Michael and the way our relationship was, he's definitely the kind of guy I think he likes a challenge, clearly. Um for the fact that we're together now because I was not at all easy for him. Oh no, sir. Like, bye. And I think that was his he likes my modesty.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

No skidding.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Maybe. He doesn't know it, but that's what he's attracted to.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

We'll find that out in the chat later.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

I'm gonna I'm gonna bring him on. Hey, so what's my most attractive quality? He's gonna say, you're modest.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Okay, we'll find out. Stay tuned, we'll find out. Just kidding. No, but I mean, but I mean, truly, like from a woman's standpoint, I'm not out here looking for the dude that's like trying to to use the kid's term, riz all the girls and have all of their, that's not the one that I want.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

You know, that I want the one who's gonna be steadfast, the one who knows who he is in Christ, because that's the one that I want to lead me. If your value of yourself is so fickle that it's dependent upon whether someone's giving you a compliment or not, I'm gonna know that you're not in the position to lead me, and I'm probably gonna look elsewhere.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah, and you know, when I'm thinking about women and I'm thinking about the kind of guys that I know you want, um, and women should want. You know, that that godly man, that uh man who's gonna lead you, who's gonna take care of you, gonna provide for you. He's not going to go for someone that he doesn't think sees their own value.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

So I know that I had where someone had asked me about some a guy in particular. And I remember, and this is horrible, but my first snap judgment when they asked, I was like, he's not gonna date you. You don't have you you are not in a place where he he would date you. You you don't have like you don't see your value. You're out here um bar hopping every night. You're doing things that he's not that's not what he's looking for. Sure. If you want to be what he's looking for, you got some some growing to do. It's no different. Like you want to get a good man, you want a man who's gonna value you, take care of you, not transactionally trade you in for the next model when one comes around. Well, hold yourself that way.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Dress yourself that way, carry yourself that way.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

And you you want people to respect you. Maybe you should look like you respect yourself first.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Yeah, like what is it? What kind of what what are you looking for in a relationship? Who what kind of person? I remember I was talking to Michael one time, he was talking to a friend, and they were talking about how they like our relationship that me and Michael have, and oh man, you know. And I told that person, I said, if you want a Madison level woman, you need to be a Michael level man. And what I was trying to say is like, I would not date you. Listen, I would not date you. I would not take you on date or go out on dates with you, I'd have to take them, but take you on dates, I would not, I would not want to take care of you. That's not what I don't want to take care of you. I don't want, that's not my job. I don't want to be your provider. Like that's not that's not what I want. You're over here, like, man, I really wish I had what Mike has. Well, then you need to be on Mike's level because I wouldn't even talk to you, boo. Not boo. I like literally wouldn't even look to your direction. Like you wouldn't have been on my radar. What do you want? Like, you can't sit here and not put in the work, want the prize, but not put in the work with yourself. Like, I've been putting a lot of work in on myself. Mike's put a lot of work in on himself. You don't get to just slide into the place and think that a woman is gonna put up with you not being put together, coming right looking like you rolled out of bed in your pajamas. I could not. I know that sounds judgmental, but it it's this the truth. I could not.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

I mean how you carry yourself speaks volumes about your mindset.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

It just does. It just does. It speaks volumes about your mindset. It either says, like if you if you're open to that kind of thing, it either says that I A, don't value myself, or B, that I don't care at all about the perception that I'm giving, which means I'm not self-aware. So, like, either way, it's not really sending the message that you want to send unless the person that's receiving the message has the same mindset that you have. Those are the people that you will attract.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Those people who are on that same page. But then you can't get upset with them if their eye is turned by every person who comes around because that's how you got them.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

That was not where we expected this to go, guys, but I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

That's the truth. The the the way that you got them is the way that you may or may not lose them. But I'm gonna be quiet now.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Well, I don't have anything else, but I do want to say let's close off.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Please. For my sake.